Category Archives: friend zone
First: there is a difference between a nice guy and a good guy.
I’m not sure how to let you know if you are a “nice” guy. Most of the time though, nice-guys are described as being someone who is always friendly, thoughtful, and there for you, but never making any strong moves in dating. A nice-guy lacks that aura of confidence and drive.
Also, you may end up being the the guy[space]friend a lot of the time, instead of the boyfriend.
On one end of the spectrum is the player, on the other is the nice-guy. Both are extremes. One creates no trust, the other creates no passion. (Both prohibit a relationship.)
You want to be in somewhere in the middle, in a range we call, “the good guy.” And! the good news is it’s super easy for nice guys to slide into that section of the spectrum.
The good guy knows how to respect women while also respecting himself. He doesn’t get distracted by girls who mess with his head, and he doesn’t waste time on a girl who can’t appreciate him. In other words, he dates women, instead of just being their friend.
Second: Women want a man who acts for himself.
This doesn’t mean ignoring others or refusal to compromise. It’s the responsible use of agency—and it just means that a guy is confident. It looks like a guy who knows what he wants, and knows how to organize it. Good men want good things, and they get them with kindness, fairness, and soul-slicing sweetness.
A good guy doesn’t have to be extremely handsome, smooth with words, athletic, coordinated, or wealthy to have this kind of x-factor confidence. A good guy doesn’t have to have a six-pack. He doesn’t even have to have a nice car. He just has to know he’s capable. Or at least act like he’s capable.
Girls frequently mistake arrogance for confidence, and it causes them a whole lot of issues. That’s why you see good girls falling over and over for the guys who only want make-outs. Players use arrogance to feed their own insecurities and manipulate girls. A player knows what he wants. And he knows he can get it. It’s really dysfunctional, but some girls misunderstand the “want” part and swoon for the “knowing” part. Hopefully, someday they’ll learn.
In the meantime, you should stop being just the nice guy, and be the guy girls talk about in hushed whispers at late-night dinner parties.
Third: How to slide into the Good Guy Range
- Make changes in your life that will give you more confidence. If you feel awkward—take Karate or Tae Kwan Do. If you feel boring—diversify: learn a new skill, take up a new sport, read articles and magazines that have nothing to do with your major. If you never know what to say to women—just ask them about themselves [more about this topic here & here].
- Exercise. Don’t ever underestimate the power of a good work-out. This gets its own bullet point because exercise is the magical unicorn ingredient to confidence. It just is.
- Give her space. This one is tricky but key. And even though, players use it all the time to play games with girls minds, good guys use it to just be normal and create a healthy amount of desire. It probably deserves its own post, but it looks like this: You ask a girl in your ward out on a Friday night. You have a really great time. On Sunday, you say hi—ask her briefly about something you talked about on your date (or something), and then you move on and talk to other people. In between Sunday and your next date, do not treat her any different than any other friend or acquaintance. When you see her, say hi. What this means to her: your dates are something to look forward to 🙂
- Your happiness doesn’t depend on her reciprocated interest. It’s really difficult, but don’t let your ego get in the way—if a girl is not interested, you have to move on. Incorporating the principles of #1 & #2 will help with this. Girls can sense when a guy is self-assured and happy. It’s extremely double attractive. It’s the element players fake with arrogance all the time. Don’t fake it. Just be it: If at any point it becomes clear that she’s not interested in a relationship with you, move on. This creates two situations: 1. you don’t waste your time. 2. she may realize you’re not like other guys she’s dated (who put up with her game-playing antics). She’ll realize you’re awesome—and she’ll want to date you. Either way: you have a happy life.
You can do it! (may the force be with you…)
We’re proud to welcome a new blogger to our Man to Man team. As the newest addition to our guy panel, Mont is here to chime in with answers to your questions about the dating world. As always, shoot us an email (firstname.lastname@example.org) or respond in the comments and we’ll pass along your question to our team.
To kick off what is sure to be the first of many posts, he’s submitted a sweet tribute to women. Don’t be fooled by the title though — guys, he has some thoughts for you too.
This is my tribute to the girls who are overlooked, who become friends & nothing more and think it is because they are doing something wrong.
This is for the girls who don’t want to play mind games, who provide a comforting hug & supportive audience for a story they’ve heard a thousand times.
This is for the girls who understand that they aren’t perfect & that the guys they’re interested in aren’t either.
For the girls who flirt & laugh over the slightest glance, whisper, or touch and that hope that maybe, just maybe this time he’ll have understood.
This is a homage to the girls who laugh & do it often, who are comfortable in skirts & sweats, who care more than they should for guys who don’t deserve their attention.
This is for the girls who have been in trenches, who have watched with a broken heart other girls time & time again fake up & make up & mess up the guys in their lives.
This is to honor those girls who know that guys are just as scared as they are, who know that they deserve better, who are seeking to find it.
This is for the girls who have never been in love, but know that it’s an experience that they don’t want to miss out on, for the girls who have sought a night with friends & been greeted by a night of rude catcalls, explicit invitations and that they’d rather not have experienced.
This is for the girls who have left sad song lyrics in their away messages or aim profiles, who have tried to make someone understand through a subliminally appealing profile, who have time & time again dropped him hint after hint after hint, only to watch him chase after another girl.
This is for the girls who have been told that they are too good or too smart or too pretty.
This is for the girls who have been led on by words & kisses & touches, all of which were either only true for the moment or never real to begin with.
This is for the girls who have allowed a guy into their heart, only to discover that he’s just not ready, he’s just not over “her”, or he’s just not looking to be tied down.
This is for the girls who have had their hearts broken, & their hopes dashed by someone too cavalier to have cared in the first place.
This is for the nights spent dissecting every word & syllable & inflection in his speech, and for the nights when you’ve returned home feeling alone.
This is for the night you convinced yourself that it would never happen, and the sunrise you saw the next morning after failing to sleep.
This is for the “I really like you, so let’s still be friends” comment after you read all the signals wrong.
This is for the hugs you’ve received from your female friends, for the nights they’ve reassured you that you are beautiful & intelligent & amazing & loyal & truly worthy of a great guy.
This is for the girls who have been used & abused, who have endured what he was giving because she couldn’t make herself believe he didn’t deserve her.
This is for the girls who have been satisfied with too little & who have learned never to expect anything more. For the girls who don’t think that they deserve more because they’ve been conditioned for so long to accept the scraps thrown to them by guys.
This is what I don’t understand: us men sitting & questioning & whining that girls are only attracted to the mean guys, the guys who berate them & belittle them & don’t appreciate them & don’t want them.
Us men who complain that we will never meet nice girls, girls who are genuinely interested & compelling who are intelligent & sweet, smart, & beautiful. We despair that no good women want to share in our lives, that girls play mind games, that girls love to keep us hanging, yet, I have to ask:
Are we to meet one of these genuinely interested, thrilling, compelling, intelligent & sweet and beautiful & smart girls, are we to give her our number & wait for her to call, & if we were to receive a call from her the next day, & she in her truthful, loyal, intelligent, and straightforward nice girl fashion were to tell us that she finds us intriguing & attractive & interesting & worth her time & perhaps material from which she could fashion a boyfriend, would we not immediately call our friends to tell them of the “stalker chick” we met the night prior, who called & wore her heart on her sleeve, & told the truth? & would we not refuse to make plans with her, speak with her, see her again & once again return to the party scene & search once more for this “nice girl” who we just cannot seem to find?
Because there in lies the truth.
Nice girls are everywhere, but maybe we are not looking for a nice girl, were not looking for someone genuinely interested in our intramural basketball game, or our anatomy midterm grade, or that argument we keep having with our parents.
Maybe we’re looking for a quick fix. A night when we can pretend to have a connection with another human being which is just as quick as the night itself.
Perhaps we shouldn’t say we’re on the lookout for a nice girl, when we pass her up every day.
If we truly were, we’d see her right in front of us.
Dave’s back! This time, he’s giving some tips on how to handle things when they just don’t go your way.
I’ve written before about how girls often choose not to be entirely frank when rejecting guys and how important it is to have enough respect for them to accept a less-than-direct response. Often, we guys don’t pay attention to what girls are trying to tell us when we’re being rejected. Or we can’t imagine why any girl wouldn’t want to go out with us. If you continue to ask a girl out after she has tried to tell you ‘no’ then you come across as arrogant, aggressive, and overzealous.
I have the misfortune of understanding how this type of badgering feels from a personal experience with a very persistent female. When I was in twelfth grade a girl from a neighboring school asked me out. She got my number from a former seminary teacher and when she called me up she started off the conversation with, “you probably don’t remember me but…” She was right, I didn’t—I kind of recognized the name but I definitely couldn’t put a face to it. She was asking me to her winter formal because “there just aren’t any good guys to ask at my school.” Sounded like trouble to me—I didn’t want to go. I told her that I thought I had a concert choir performance that night and that I’d check and get back to her. Turns out I did have a performance. What a relief. I called her back to tell her:
Me: I’m sorry but I have a concert that same night.
Her: That’s ok, I can just pick you up for the activity, drop you off for your concert, and then pick you up afterwards to go to the dance…
Me: Umm, ok. The concert’s at 7.
What could I say at that point? My excuse was legitimate, but I was really hoping that it would get me out of a date I didn’t want to go on. When she dodged it I had two options: go with her or tell her that I really didn’t want to. I could have been wrong, but I judged that she was the type of girl who would have a hard time with rejection so I felt obligated to go. Needless to say, the date was way south of mediocre—even straying into ‘worst date ever’ territory at times.
Now, guys, we’re the ones who are generally in the position of asking girls to go out with us. We need to make sure that we never put girls in situations where they feel obligated to go out on a date when they aren’t interested. If she gives you an excuse you should accept it and try again another time. Don’t start grasping at straws in an attempt to corner her into going out with you. If she says she has something, DO NOT ask her what it is or what time or anything else that makes her think you suspect she’s fibbing. Remember, “I’m busy” is much easier for everyone than “I’m really not interested in you”.
When you get turned down, listen to how she does it—if she suggests that you go out some other time then you should try asking her out again in a week or so. Generally, if she says ‘no’ to three attempts in a row without a legitimate excuse I would suggest not calling her again. Persistence is not going to make her like you more. It feels like I always hear old men who got married young say stuff like “I had to convince my wife to marry me.” While this may be true in some cases, it’s more likely just something that these guys say to be self-deprecating and funny.
While you should be sensitive to whether a girl is rejecting you, you need to be careful that you don’t become gun-shy. You should work to find a happy medium between timid and overzealous. Being bold and confident are good things, so long as you’re careful not to cross the line to arrogant and cocky. Ask out as many girls as you can but know how to quit when they’re trying to tell you that they’re not interested.